Who, What, And Why? - Final Fantasy VII Forum

Saw that you made a new thread so I'm double posting the comment I just posted over at the old thread.

Ugh that actually reminds me, I once read a fic where a big-boobed Tifa actually RAPED yes that's right RAPED Cloud and basically being all clingy and saying she'll never let anyone else have him, and for ** sake Cloud was CRYING in the fic, EFFING CRYING!!!! And he acted like he was disgusted and scarred for life. That fic honestly made me want to bash my head against the computer and I seriously wanted to flame it but I resisted it because, I'm too nice. :3

Seriously though, I may not be super-crazy about Tifa but I know enough that Tifa is not some big-boobed clingy co-dependent ** and she most certaintly IS NOT a rapist!! Jesus people!! Also Cloud isn't disgusted by her, hell I bet if Tifa tried to do that in canon Cloud would be drooling and feel like his dream has come true. What is with all these Cleriths thinking Tifa is the anti-christ herself and that Cloud wants nothing more but to get away from her?? FFS HE was the one chasing HER!!

Also it's not so much their blatant defense of the Cleris pairing, but when they start bashing the fans of Clotis by calling them insane and then writing horrible fics like the one I just described above, it's a little hard to ignore them.

3/30/2011 #3 Report

@Marche Waltz

See, thats how I feel basically...

Sure, Tifa and Cloud go through rough times, but a couple does. It happens. They've had to deal with some awful stuff in their time, and there IS some tragedy in their relationship. I mean, they both have feelings for one another in childhood, but they miss out on it and end up separated. Tifa having been unconscious during the time Cloud Rescued her, probably had serious doubts if he was alive or not.

Eventually they are reunited, only for her to find there isn't something quite right with him anymore. THEN she feels as though she's losing him to another woman, who while she's fond of also feels a bit of jealousy towards? When she's semi-resigned herself to losing him, she also loses her Friend to death, and then when it probably felt like it couldn't get any worse, she loses Cloud AGAIN. For her, I think in a way it must of felt like to much, and thats why she decided to stay with him rather then travel with the others. Everyone has a breaking point.

And even when they are finally together, and Tifa's thinking to herself "We're finally back on track, things are going to be okay now." They get thrown off course AGAIN.

I mean yea, It's not Romeo and juliet, but there is a lot of Drama and Tragedy there when you think of it. But the plus is, you get the happy end.

I don't like Tragedies. Sure, torture the characters for a bit, but in the end, they need that redeeming moment. The moment where you can say to yourself; "Their going to be okay. They finally got through it!" To me, thats always the best part. It's where I end up crying and smiling at the same time. If a story can do that to you, you know its good.

The love they had for one another, that just couldn't connect in their past, through all the obstacles, through everything they've lost; Their family, their friends, themselves. It can finally meet in the end.

Something about that just really moves me in the end.

@FireMiko

Lol...Just LOL! *Facepalms*

How in hells name, would TIFA rape CLOUD? The man has MAKO. I mean, I know Tifa is good, but she isn't THAT Good. If it came down to a fight fight between her and Cloud, he'd win. There is just no way if he didn't want it, he couldn't stop her.

That author is just kinda sad...So sad i cant take them and what they wrote seriously- and I didn't even read it.

Glad i haven't read it, because I think I'd vomit. What is with all these Cleriths thinking Tifa is the anti-christ herself and that Cloud wants nothing more but to get away from her?? FFS HE was the one chasing HER!!

Word.

As for why they do it, its a common defense mechanism in any fandom. DEMONIZE THE OPPOSITION. Sakura gets it, Hinata gets it, Karin gets it. Keiko gets it.

Its honestly sad, because all of them are likable in some way. All of them have f-uped at some point, some more then others. All of them can be genuinely sweet to the guys they like...and Hinata has never done anything wrong to anybody, except exist according to Rabid Narusaku fans.

But hey, can't please everybody I guess.

I'm not saying ignore them, but don't get worked up to much over it. LAUGH at them is what I'm saying. Because it's honestly kinda funny. "If they think I'M crazy...what the hell are THEY?"

3/30/2011 #4 Report

Who? I'ma Cloti. *gestures at icon* = D

What? A shipper of canon.

Why? Because it is canon.

Naw, I'm just messin'! I AM a Cloti, but I'm not a shipper of it because of the fact that it is canon; I ship Cloud and Tifa together because I appreciate what their relationship actually is like IN canon. See the difference? Canon =/= realistic, healthy and well-developed couple.

Cloud and Tifa are two people who have known each other for a considerable amount of time, had plenty of obstacles thrown their way, yet managed to overcome every single one at the end of the day by sticking it out -- together. The relationship between them has only strengthened and developed positively over the course of time. Cloud and Tifa have a cute, shy bond that is built on mutual things like faith, devotion, and respect. They argue, yes, and have had their rough patches, but also always ended up coming back together. ACC is a perfect example of this -- Cloud leaves Tifa and the kids to live in Aerith's church because of varying reasons (guilt over Aerith and Zack's deaths, contracting Geostigma, failing to find a cure for Denzel's Geostigma, and altogether feeling not good enough for anyone), but moves back in once he realizes "where he is meant to live". Cloud is "engulfed in celebration" when he realizes he can forgive HIMSELF and that he BELONGS with Tifa, Denzel, and Marlene. =3

Don't forget, after the final battle, Cloud told Tifa in COT he felt he could start anew because he was with her in a different way from before. Her opinion/attitude is what "matters most" to him. He thinks positively of her regardless of what others may say. In his eyes, she is a cheerful, strong and admirable woman who he willingly STAYS with. He cheers her up, gives her reassurance, and makes it clear he cares about her. The same can definitely be said for Tifa! There is no angsty unrequited love here, folks. The feelings are mighty mutual.

Basically, I ship Cloti because of the progression of their relationship from the original game and onward. I love the Compilation, personally, and can appreciate canon for what it is. ♥

3/31/2011 #5 Report

Are you sure you're just not masquerading as a Cloti? ;D

You are SOooooo Unconvincing. I see right through you and that icon! See the difference? Canon =/= realistic, healthy and well-developed couple. Don't forget, after the final battle, Cloud told Tifa in COT he felt he could start anew because he was with her in a different way from before. Her opinion/attitude is what "matters most" to him. He thinks positively of her regardless of what others may say. In his eyes, she is a cheerful, strong and admirable woman who he willingly STAYS with.

Very true, a real relationship is about give and take; Emotionally, physically and mentally. When Tifa doubts herself, Cloud assures her. When Cloud is indecisive, Tifa bolsters him. In that respect they become the others greatest strength and asset. They allow the other to move forward when it feels like they couldn't anymore.

Even when they have their hurdles, they pull through them- Together. It's a perfect example of what a "Healthy" Couple should be.

3/31/2011 #6 Report

@Tsukiko Hoshino

Yeah I suppose, I guess I just get offended easily when it comes to my favorite pairings, especially when they're canon^^;

You're right the person that wrote that fic is funny....in a sad kind of way but still funny nontheless.

I was also mostly laughing the entire time during the fic, not just the fact that Tifa was portrayed as a rapist but that apparently her boobs also increased size and she was also called "The Famous Slut of Midgar." 0.0 Also in the fic when she was forcing herself on him Cloud just kept saying to her, "Ewww Get Off of me, go away Tifa!!!!" He was so disgusted with her. That fic was so OOC it wasn't even funny. I honestly didn't know whether I should of laughed or cried.

*Sighs* This fandom sometimes....

3/31/2011 #7 Report

@ Tsu:

You caught me! I'm actually trollin' ya'll. Convincing act, huh? I mean, I cannot STAND Cloti. It's such a horrid pairing.

I'm ACTUALLY a huge fan of CloudxAerith! Why? Well..

Aerith makes Cloud more happy than Tifa ever did, even back when they were children. Tifa is similar to Cloud when it comes to personality as well; for lack of better word, they're both angst-ridden emos. Aerith is more cheery despite her tragic past and she is what Cloud needs in his life. She is more bubbly, outgoing, not to mention the only one to have actually brought out Cloud's caring side more than once.^^

& as for Tifa's relationship to Cloud? Nomura himself stated that Tifa has a maternal bond with Cloud. 'Nuff said. ;D

Omg, you guys, I totally copy pasted that from a post I made on a forum 3 years ago. Wow I was delusional. O__x

Ooh and this: Clotis have burnt cookies and black ribbons. Get it? Cause they where black are super emo together, lol. I'm so corny. XD

Wow, such utter fail. *facepalms* If you guys want to see me copy paste anything else I said way back when, I can; it actually is quite amusing now that I'm reading it all over.

On a serious note -- CloudxTifa is definitely one of the most well-developed and healthy couples I have ever shipped. They've dealt with so much, and worked so hard to overcome numerous obstacles in their lifes -- all while supporting each other. Now they are at a point in their life where they are living together, raising kids and running a business. They're content with how everything has played out, and really? They deserve some normalcy. They frigging helped to save the world. I don't personally understand how people could find that boring, but whatever~

Cloud and Aerith maybe could have developed into something, but Aerith died, and with it any chance for Clorith. It's hard to compare a relationship between two people who only knew each other for only two weeks -- as unique and sweet as it was -- to another where they've known each other for what, seven years? There's no competition, and I think everyone can agree with me on this -- Tifa is the person who is closest to Cloud, and vice versa..

"Since 2 years ago, Tifa has been the only one [Cloud] has opened his heart to." -- AC Prologue Book

♥ Aww, now isn't that sweet? =3

3/31/2011 #8 Report

@ FireMiko-Kagomechan

Argh, sorry, forgot to respond to your post!

I understand your frustration, believe me. =/ I myself equally love both Aerith and Tifa. So I constantly am being bombarded by bashing of either woman .. like not too long ago, I read a really well-written CloudxTifa story. I was really loving it -- until Aerith bashing popped up. Basically, they both were compared to each other, and Tifa was made out to be more selfless, compassionate, and yadda yadda. *rolls eyes* It annoyed me so much. I didn't see the point in comparing Aerith to Tifa in what was supposed to be a CLOUDXTIFA STORY. How about they both are selfless to a fault, and extremely beautiful and couragous women?

Fandom can be such a pain sometimes.

3/31/2011 #9 Report

Ugh well at least you just had to deal with a review. I still can't believe the nerve of people that they would actually write Tifa as a RAPIST!! A Fucking RAPIST!! Were they seriously playing the same game as me?? :/ I mean seriously, sure Tifa has um "above average womanly assets" But that doesn't mean she's a sex crazed molester!!!!

What really got me in that fic was that they made Cloud disgusted by her and trying to push her off saying he has no interest in her and crying. Jesus christ, Cloud was in love with her since he was a kid!! What is with this fandom belief that Tifa had unrequited love for Cloud when it was the other way around!!

4/2/2011 #10 Report

@FireMiko

Her boobs are honestly not as big as some people would like to think...

At least anymore, lol. Sure they looked HUGE in FF7, but that was due to graphic issues. If you look at her official art, Figurines and later appearances they are much more "Normal" Sized, and don't appear gigantic. Are they larger then some peoples? Sure, but not HOLY SHIZ Freak-Of-Nature-Large. I personally wouldn't even say their above average/normal, but then I don't know average breast sizes and what not.

I cannot begin to fathom why people write some of the things they do. It's kinda unfortunate this place is so lax in the things they let people upload...cause I have seen some scary ass stuff up in here. Stuff that somehow gets reviews, while the quality fics suffer.

Honestly, don't even bother asking "Why?" Or if they even bothered playing the game. The problem is that they obviously didn't have the brain cells to grasp the story, or the characters. Hell, they probably don't even know what "Maturity." is.

If you want, you could just report the story, I'm sure that might teach them a lesson.

@Love Tifa

You caught me! I'm actually trollin' ya'll. Convincing act, huh? I mean, I cannot STAND Cloti. It's such a horrid pairing. I pity you so bad. DX I am so glad I don't have embarrassing past history to drag up...besides my Typo's and Math!Fail.I KNEW IT! *points finger accusingly*

Okay being serious!Tsu for the moment...

Although, its not like anyone can use it against you or something since you've seen the Crazy!Logic

It's hard to compare a relationship between two people who only knew each other for only two weeks -- as unique and sweet as it was -- to another where they've known each other for what, seven years? There's no competition, and I think everyone can agree with me on this -- Tifa is the person who is closest to Cloud, and vice versa..

You can "Like" Someone, be or "attracted" to someone, without knowing them all to well. But loving someone comes with TIME. I'm sure that sounds a bit pragmatic in ways, you know; "Love at first sight" And all, but think about it; Love is about accepting someone for everything they are, the good, the bad, the weird, and the in between. You can't love someone at first sight, because you don't know anything about them.

Aerith and Cloud can be "Drawn" To one another, but it means nothing because she didn't know who Cloud was.

On a side note...Somehow I managed to stab myself with a fork earlier. This is a testament to how accident prone I am...Magazines become lethal weapons in my hands, except they only work against myself.

I tell you all this ;D because I know you'll enjoy laughing at my expense.

4/2/2011 . Edited 4/2/2011 #11 Report

@Tsukiko

Ha-ha OMG I should report the story that's a great idea :) Though the only thing I'm worried about is that fic had alot of reviews and fans and I don't want all the fangirls jumping on me and flaming me. -.- (Reporting is anonymous right????)

Ugh yeah it also sickens me how OOC garbage like that fic gets more reviews and hits than actual in-character quality writing. I guess the ones that take a side on the whole FF7 LTD and resort to "bashing" are more popular than those who don't give a crap about it and portray each character accurately.

But yeah all the reviewers of that fic were Cleris fans and they kept on saying stuff like. "Nooooo Cloud, that slut Tifa needs to die!!!!" "C'mon Cloud hit her with your Limit Breaks she needs to keep her disgusting slutty hands off of you, you don't know where she's been!!!!!" "Tifa, get it through your head that Cloud hates you and thinks you're disgusting!! Leave him alone you slut, he loves Aerith!!"

And my personal favorite of the reviews....

"Awww poor Cloud, don't worry your beutiful angel Aerith will heal your poor, tortured, soul. Don't give up!!!! Tifa is just a clingy bitch who can't accept that you love Aerith more."

See why I'm starting to think Cleris fans are crazy?? :D I'm serious, I have never seen this kind of behaivor from Cloti fans. How can Cloti fans even be rabid if our pairing is canon, what do they have to prove??

4/3/2011 #12 Report

Marche Waltz

Can you link me to that fic, FireMiko?

I guess it's morbid curiosity, but I want to read it.

4/3/2011 #13 Report

I'd actually like the link too. I'm not scared of reporting it, or reviewing it for that matter.

Reporting is anonymous as far as I know, and even if it wasn't, I'd do it. I'm not sure what reporting it will really resolve...unless it's violating the terms of use, but it's worth a try.

If they start flaming my fics GOOD. More reviews for me, and it's somebody to laugh at. In the end, I win either way.

Life is good right? ;D

4/3/2011 #14 Report

Ava Chanel

WHAT THE...

I was NOT subscribed to this even when I thought I was...which is why I haven't been responding to you guys...

Or maybe I didn't respond because...

I HATE CLOTI.

That's right. I'm a fan of Clouffie and Clerra ;D

...

Okay, resisting urge to stab myself in the eye and I just typed that.

But this isn't about pairings I loathe, is it? :P

You guys brought up fantastic reasons and to be honest, I really don't think I can top it. I'd just sound repetitive. So I'll be honest;

I'm a biased Tifa fan. :)

So what Tifa wants, Tifa gets. Got it? Good.

But seriously...I grew up on this game; 'twas one of my first RPGs and, in a way, I grew up with CloTi. That's why it'll always have a little soft spot in my cold and ruthless heart. D:

@FireMiko:

Is it worse than spiritsex? 'Cause that was bad. And I won't be reading it if it is. I stray away from many fanfiction in the FF7 fandom. For good reason. It's a thirteen year old game; how many of these 'recent' fans do you think have actually played it? I'd say VERY few. The majority just BECAME fans because of KH/CC/Dissidia/AC. So, yeah, their interpretations of the characters are a little too off for me. Plus, a lot of these fans are tweens. And...I don't think they're very capable of writing a decent lemon for their life. Read the Kushiel series, see how far they get without closing it. :P I loved those books, but anyways...

LOL At Tifa raping Cloud. Let me set this straight;

IC, it would NOT be rape. Why?

Because Cloud would ENJOY every godd*amn blasted second of it. If he enjoys Tifa 'raping' him, it cannot be called rape because he'd be willing. End of. :)

The Clerith fans have a more negative reputation, mainly because of their forum(among other things). But don't rule out wacko CloTi's either; trust me, they're out there. Before CloTi became so blatantly canon, I've seen poor arguments made by rabid CloTi fans. Saying stuff like: Cloud likes Tifa because he has better sex with her.

That's not a valid argument. It's just weird. I've heard it said that their clothes match in AC so they're destined. But mainly, the 'sexual' comments are irritating. That stuff is fine and dandy in fanfiction and it's funny when the gamemakers allude to it. But in seriousness? It reminds me of fifth grade when kids giggled at the reproductive system. :\

Seriously though, just LAUGH at those sort of things. People like that aren't meant to be taken seriously. I've read a fanfiction where Tifa gets a bit bashed for her clothing and chest size but it's meant to be humorous. I believe the author was a yaoi fan. So it isn't always Cleriths. :P The story, I will admit, was well written, but was a bit much for me with the rampant Tifa bashing.

@LT:

:O I KNEW IT! YOU NEVER CONVERTED, DID YOU?! LIES. IT WAS ALL LIES.

How could you?! T_T

...

You have accepted the dark side and so, all is forgiven. :D

I'm joking, btw.

@Tsu:

Awww, s'okay. I've had klutzy moments myself. :)

Oh, I've been meaning to get to your recent KH chapter! But school is eating me alive right as of now (exam time...) so...I promise I'll get to it! :D No one would flame you; you're writing is far better than any average fan. And with LT beta-ing for you, there is nothing to flame. :P

4/3/2011 #15 Report

@Ava

Or maybe I didn't respond because...

I HATE CLOTI.

That's right. I'm a fan of Clouffie and Clerra ;D

*le Gasp* Lies! They are EVERYWHERE. Everything I thought I knew is ALL A LIE!

Maybe I'm a lie.

...OH GOD! I AM A LIE.

This is just like the cake...

You don't like Clerra and Clouffie, huh? Me either...

I also don't like Clack though. It sounds like an STD...

I'm a biased Tifa fan. :) So what Tifa wants, Tifa gets. Got it? Good.

*Raises hand* Guilty.

Thats actually one of the things that bothers me about Yaoi these days.

I find it disturbing that the majority of the shippers for it are women, who put two guys together who are expressed as being heterosexual, make them gay and then have to take female love interests and bash them.

What is up with the hate on their own gender? It's a disturbing.

I dunno...I guess I just have to much respect for being a women to do that. Most Yaoi shippers are like high-school kids anyways P: GOD it was bad when I went to school.

To each their own though. I just honestly wish they could do it without destroying good characters.

4/3/2011 #16 Report

@ Tsu:

Her boobs are honestly not as big as some people would like to think...

I totally agree with you! They aren't nearly as big as they were in the original game. Like you said, that was due to graphics issues.

However, there is no way her chest is normal/average size! Trust me, *I* am average sized. Tifa -- isn't. xD; I'll feel odd if I say what size I am though, um, yah..but yes overall I agree, her chest isn't as huge as it is often made out to be anymore.

Speaking of chests, I love how people claim Aerith is flat as a board. I thought ACC and CC made it clear that she wasn't.

I KNEW IT! *points finger accusingly*

Okay being serious!Tsu for the moment...

Although, its not like anyone can use it against you or something since you've seen the Crazy!Logic

Haha, I know no one can use it against me. If they did, that would be really dumb considering I don't believe any of that crap anymore. I just was looking back and reflecting on my rabid Clorith days..and wanted to give you guys a taste of the madness.

In that same forum, a Cloti came in and tried to call out my and other Cloriths bashing of Cloti/Tifa. I of course, like the others, said that I was a genuine fan of Tifa and had never bashed her. I got on the defensive. *rolls eyes*

Aerith and Cloud can be "Drawn" To one another, but it means nothing because she didn't know who Cloud was.

Well, it IS an established fact that Aerith loved Cloud before she died; she saw that Cloud wasn't completely himself (past the "facade" as one quote puts it), but did she fully know him? No, because she died beforehand. Ironically, Aerith got to know the real Cloud completely and utterly when his romantic feelings for Tifa were revealed..

I do understand what you're saying. I don't believe in love at first sight either. You can't love someone you don't know. You can't love someone for who they are, the good and the bad, just by LOOKING at them. That's nonsense. It's also called lust.

I tell you all this ;D because I know you'll enjoy laughing at my expense.

You sound like me aha. xD I tend to magically trip over thin air. Up and down the stairs. Over small rocks.

It's pretty sad, not to mention annoying. Clumsiness for the lose! As long as you can learn to laugh at it.. who am I kidding, whenever it happens I tend to laugh later and snap at people who laugh at me right after it happens. *cough*

Thats actually one of the things that bothers me about Yaoi these days.

What is up with the hate on their own gender? It's a disturbing.

I dunno...I guess I just have to much respect for being a women to do that. Most Yaoi shippers are like high-school kids anyways P: GOD it was bad when I went to school.

To each their own though. I just honestly wish they could do it without destroying good characters.

The same can be said for het pairings too. Heck, sometimes, especially the het ones. SasuSaku has the most rabid fanbase in all of Naruto. It's shipped primarily by girls who think the Sauce is hot/Sakura is their self-insert Mary Sue/don't have an actual grasp on the characters and their personalities. I mean, have you read their fics? They're usually saccharine coated, glitzy stories teeming full of OOC'ness and fairytale-like qualities. =/

Technically, shipping ANY couple that deviates from canon is "wrong". That's not the point of shipping though. It's usually just for fun. I myself am pretty open-minded when it comes to couples whether they are het, yaoi, or yuri. My only problem is when it involves explicit character assasination or a twisting of facts to try to claim what your ship *is* canon. It's obnoxious and immature. I like Rude/Tifa a heck of a lot, but do I go around bashing Cloud in favor of Rude? Saying Rufa is the canon couple? No, because I'm not delusional and know that Cloti is where it's at. It's merely a cute crack couple that I like to play with in fanon so to speak, ponder over 'what ifs' and whatnot.

Cloud/Aerith is an FFVII ship I have no problem with in itself. I can see the potential. If Aerith had lived, who knows? I think there would have been more of an actual LT that's for sure. However, she died, and with it any possible further development for Cloud/Aerith. A lot of rabid Cloriths will take every quote out of context to downgrade the Cloud/Tifa relationship and put Aerith on a pedestal when it comes to Cloud's heart. Ship it! Have fun writing fanfics and making pretty fanart for it! Just don't lower yourself to having to bash the 'opposing' character and spouting out nonsense in the fact of cold, hard facts. No one will take you seriously.

Also, speaking of bashing characters, there is a difference between legitimately criticizing a character and nonsensically bashing one. Certain people don't understand that though.

@ FireMiko-Kagomechan:

It wasn't a review, it was a lengthy oneshot that seemed pretty well-written until Aerith bashing popped up. The point of comparing the two women in the fic was LITERALLY to show how Tifa was better/more important to Avalanche than Aerith. Which is simply ridiculous .. but that is fandom for you. It's rare when shippers can actually be civil about the opposition.

There are rabid Clotis who bash Aerith a ton, trust me. I've seen it all; she is too cheerful, she is ugly, she is flat chested, she is too girly, she is a hussie for trying to get between Cloud and Tifa, etc. Is it as common as Tifa bashing? I would say no from what I've seen. It definitely exists though.

I'm going to also ask if I can have linkage to this fic as well. I'm really hoping it's like THIS story (http://www.fanfiction.ws/s/1386751/1/The_Usual_Cliche_Aeris_Resurrection_Story), but I somehow doubt it.. btw, I highly reccomend you guys read the fic I linked, as it is one of the most HILARIOUS things I've ever read! ;D

@ Ava:

WHAT THE...

I was NOT subscribed to this even when I thought I was...which is why I haven't been responding to you guys...

Or maybe I didn't respond because...

I HATE CLOTI.

That's right. I'm a fan of Clouffie and Clerra ;D

It's weird, I could have swore I subscribed too, yet I didn't get any notifications. I had to randomly keep checking just to make sure I am not missing out on anything.

Lol, speaking of Clouffie.. I actually said way back when the day I shipped Cloti was the day I shipped Clouffie. Well, I can tell you guys I without a doubt do not ship Cloud/Yuffie to this day! I think their date is pretty cute, actually. How Yuffie kisses Cloud and she's all "Say something!" to which he responds, "..."? That just cracks me up. I just don't seriously enjoy the pairing is all.^^;

I'm a biased Tifa fan. :)

So what Tifa wants, Tifa gets. Got it? Good.

At least you're honest. ;D Cloud wants Tifa too, so it all works out in the end! Cloti FTW!♥

You have accepted the dark side and so, all is forgiven. :D

I'm joking, btw.

We technically ARE the dark side. I mean, we do ship Cloud and Tifa. Two people who are extremely similar, have tragic pasts, and are NOT close in any way. Cloud and Tifa could never be together, they only haver a familial relationship! Siblings who are awkward together, and never succeed in making the other happy. Heck, we ONLY actually ship it because even though Cloud will never see Tifa in that light, what Tifa wants, Tifa gets! It doesn't matter to us that he's still in love with his precious flower girl who died right before his eyes. We just want Tifa to get the guy she has been obsessed with for so long.

It's pretty dark, ya'll.

Isn't it funny that Cloti is seen by a lot of rabids as exactly what I just described? Yet, other than the rough patch/s here or there, they have the strongest yet shyest and cute bond in all of FFVII?

4/4/2011 #17 Report

Okay, I just have to say something:

Don't claim that you think CloudxAerith is the intended canon pairing and then when you're proven wrong, say that Clorith and Cloti have an EQUAL amount of proof. -__-

Ugh. Just ugh.

4/4/2011 #18 Report

@Love Tifa:

lol! I won't ask your boob size, if you don't ask mine ;D

Okay okay, so her boobs ain't average...but not freakishly large either.

So very true. I probably should have clarified "Before death" when I posted, but oh well.

Glad I'm not the only one who kinda scoffs at love at first sight. I mean, sure its romantic, but highly impossible.

LOL yea...I have seen some pretty bad Sasusaku fics...but I have also seen some relatively nice ones- despite my Sasuke-dislike. I have seen some crazy out of character Sakura's too...Like where she worships Jashin, curses like a sailor and what not. Might as well just write an Original Character fic instead of trying to disguise it. Seriously, do the fans a favor and tell it like it is instead of trying to trick them.

See, I have no problem with canon Shojo Ai/Yuri or Shounen Ai/Yaoi...

Michiru and Haruka from Sailor Moon are freaking awesome...Heck, I don't even mind Seiya and Usagi from Sailor Moon and they aren't canon, and Seiya is more like a man than Mamoru any day. but they have actual HINT'S/Attraction/Proof/Whatever. Usagi and Seiya both have an attraction to one another...Zack and Cloud? No. JUST NO. Both men have DEEP DEEP DEEP feelings for certain women. Both REPEATEDLY show those feelings through actions and words. So...magically turning them gay is just a huge No-no for me. Genesis, or Sephi? I can kinda see those two swinging either way...Or both ;D But it just bothers me when we take known straight characters and twist them for some reason.

Example of a horrible out of wack Yaoi couple? Faust and Manta from Shaman King.

Yea. Scream, claw your eyes out, beg for death. I know I did.

Why. JUST WHY?! Faust who is completely DEVOTED TO Eliza, takes his own shin bones out so her skeleton will be complete, devotes his entire childhood into finding a way to cure her, and then proceeds to devote HIS LIFE to brining her back to life is made to be a closet pedophile in love with a midget. ( P: I am fiercely in love with Faust and Eliza...It's the Shiz, and you know it. )

WTF?

It's wrong. SO WRONG. Then there is Ciel and Sabastian from Kuroshitsuji. I get it, it's full of freaking fan service moments, and is admittedly Yaoi flavoured. What I cannot stand is the rampant Lizzy abuse in the fan base. She's a good girl, who is a little spoiled, but all she really wants is to be close to Ciel, and see him smile. Is that so wrong? Is a person outside your ship loving someone, and actually caring and giving a damn about what happens to them against the law?

When did having good intentions make you the scum of the earth? The real reason is that the majority of the fanbase are Yaoi lovers, and see her engagement to Ciel as opposition for their ship *Snorts*

Technically, shipping ANY couple that deviates from canon is "wrong". That's not the point of shipping though. It's usually just for fun. I myself am pretty open-minded when it comes to couples whether they are het, yaoi, or yuri. My only problem is when it involves explicit character assassination or a twisting of facts to try to claim what your ship *is* canon. It's obnoxious and immature. I like Rude/Tifa a heck of a lot, but do I go around bashing Cloud in favor of Rude? Saying Rufa is the canon couple? No, because I'm not delusional and know that Cloti is where it's at.

While I agree, that writing Yaoi and Crack/Noncanon are kinda on the same level...I also have to disagree.

Example; Zack who is a KNOWN ladies man suddenly batting for the other team. That goes against this whole "Zack likes the ladies" Thing he's got going on. It's against his character.

That's the B.S i'm talking about in regards to Yaoi...I can see Narusasu in someways because of the obsession Naruto's got going on with Sasuke lately, and the accidental kiss and what not.

But, JIRAIYA Who is the king of perverts, writes a porn book, WHO IS CLEARLY heterosexual suddenly having the hots for Orochimaru? That stuff right there is what pisses me off. It's just out of character, by phenomenal proportions.

If people are going to do it...I just want it to be believable and in character...I dunno, I'm weird like that. *sits in corner.*

If they think So and so are hot/cute/whatever together, thats fine, but I dont want to hear them trying to pass it off as Canon, bashing other ships, or the character that is "In the way" of their fiction OTP, And stuff like that.

It's embarrassing, and gives the decent ones who like it a bad name.

4/4/2011 #19 Report

Crap. You got this in right before me.

Sounds like someone's BACK PEDDLING! :D

Not to worry, it's a common defense mechanism we adapt. Tell them to swallow A BITTER DOSE of reality and call you in the morning.

4/4/2011 #20 Report

Seonaid Mist

Hi, guys. c: I'm sorry if I'm late for the party, I got caught up in work (and Dissidia 012, ohohohohoho~). I also didn't know there was a new thread because I kinda overlooked it when I was reading through posts.

I'm confused now, should I still respond to them? :B Please excuse my forum noobishness, I haven't done this in a while.

Also, I would just like to inform you guys of a particular spoiler that you may, or may not know about. SPOILER In Duodecim, you can apparently unlock a certain voice file of Tifa's that implies risqué things. Namely, this line: "Words aren't the only way to convey your feelings."

Now, isn't it strange how Square Enix would go all the way to choose this as Tifa's line to represent her in Duodecim? She has plenty more awesome lines in the game, even in Advent Children, but they chose this line. Are they implying that a supposedly "optional-and-not-conclusive" (which is not optional, and definitely conclusive--durr Ultimania) High Affection scene in FF7 is actually CANON? Oh dear.

I can sense that some people are going to use this as proof that Tifa is actually a wh0re, or some other thing.

I never knew this for the Japanese version, because I never got Tifa to lvl100, which is the requirement. She's around the 80s at the moment. I'm not really one to powerlevel. c.c I didn't see any reason to... but now I do. I'm still too lazy to do it though. Teehee~ END SPOILER

Yes, I just came to give you all spoilers.

Love Tifa (hi!) and Tsu (can I call you Tsu?):

Okay, I just have to say something:

Don't claim that you think CloudxAerith is the intended canon pairing and then when you're proven wrong, say that Clorith and Cloti have an EQUAL amount of proof. -__-

Ugh. Just ugh.

Crap. You got this in right before me.

Sounds like someone's BACK PEDDLING! :D

Not to worry, it's a common defense mechanism we adapt. Tell them to swallow A BITTER DOSE of reality and call you in the morning.

Please do give details. I like to see people backpedal for my amusement.

Don't judge me. :B

4/4/2011 #21 Report

You can still Rep, just copy and past the posts your referring to like you usually would and post it here. I need to let the last poster know we moved...even though I put the link up and all.

OMGHJHJHJ.

like I've been saying the last few weeks...SE, is not just trollin' round the bush. THERE IS A REASON they made Duodecim so Cloti flavored.

Why?

'CAUSE ITS CANON. I'm highly amused with the Cleriths who are either gapping like fish out of water, or having seizures about Duodecim, and trying to fanatically spin their way out of the web they're in. Tifa is actually a wh0re, or some other thing.

They don't need that for proof mist...Just look at Tifa's Boobz. It's all the proofz we need.

I want that voice file...but not going to happen anytime soon.

:D yes, yes you can call me Tsu.

Pfft...I'd give details, but i have none. All I know is that it's someone desperately trying to work out of the hole they managed to fall in to.

I like watching people back peddle too...

Especially when they have the nerve of acting like everyone else is crazy and they were right all along.

4/4/2011 #22 Report

@ Tsu:

Honestly, I can't take anyone seriously who believes in love at first sight. I didn't know people even did like genuinely believe in such a thing existing. It's just .. total nonsense. =/ Some people will try to argue that "ooh my grandparents are still together and they experienced love at first sight!" No, your grandparents were physically attracted to each other, and then they became interested in genuinely getting to know each other. After finding out the good, and the bad, realizing their strengths and their weaknesses, they fell in love.

While I agree, that writing Yaoi and Crack/Noncanon are kinda on the same level...I also have to disagree.

Character assasination is character assasination. It isn't lessened if the pairing is boyxgirl. The fact is, a crack pairing is still a crack pairing. Straight or not, ANY couple that goes against the intended pairing deviates from canon, period. I've never met a Clack shipper that thought it was actually canon. Most people who like the two men as a couple like it because they have a strong bond in canon and numerous moments together that showcase it and their importance to one another; friendsaresaid to make the best lovers. I do see its appeal, but I don't ship it myself. Still, it's far from the worse crack couple. I'd take it any day over the likes of Cloud/Yuffie. I mean, just because Cloud is "canonly" straight doesn't mean Clouffie is better or more logical than Clack.

Shipping is for fun. It's not really serious business. The only time I get up in arms about anything dealing with shipping is if shippers are bashing the 'opposition'/totally writing characters as OOC (uke and seme stereotypes anyone?)/if I'm in a debate setting and it IS supposed to be dealing with canon.

If people are going to do it...I just want it to be believable and in character...I dunno, I'm weird like that. *sits in corner.*

It's embarrassing, and gives the decent ones who like it a bad name.

When it comes to my own ships, I'm the same way. Pretty much all of is how I feel, but I apply it to shippers of het and yuri couples, too.

It's just .. some of what you are saying rubs me the wrong way, and can be taken badly. I know that is not how you are meaning to come across, and you aren't a homophobe -- it's just at times it almost seems like you view crack yaoi couples in a worse light than crack het. Like I had to reread your posts a few times because I was like "it sounds like she is singling out yaoi shippers as being the only ones who are immature high school brats who bash female characters and veer away from canon.." because that's far from the truth. Clorith in itself is enough proof of that. xD Rabid Cloriths bash Tifa, the canon couple Cloti, and its shippers all the time. Just because Clorith is a straight couple that had a chance of happening doesn't make it superior to Clack for instance; I mean, I'm positive Zack knew the real Cloud WHILE he was alive, and didn't project his past feelings for an ex onto him when they first met. Not to mention the two actually knew each other for longer than two weeks.. In that way Clack has more basis to me than Clorith does.

The only problem I have with yaoi is when people try to pidgeonhole characters into roles like seme and uke. I've read a decent amount of NaruSasu stories, good and bad. I prefer the ones that actually keep their personalities in tact. ♥ Those are enjoyable; that and do not include mindless bashing of female characters like Sakura or Hinata. *rolls eyes* The fics that make out Naruto to be the weaky, clingy and whiny "female" of the relationship whereas Sasuke is always in control just sicken me. It's not sexy, it's annoying and unrealistic.

Wow, I've really strayed from the topic at hand.. D= Sorry, my apologies everyone! Now, back to what I popped in earlier and complained about..

This Clorith was complaining about Cloti shippers in regards to Dissidia. I could link you guys if you'd like to see; it was on a Cloti tumblr; yes, you read that right. A Clorith complained about Cloti shippers/the pairing on a CLOTI tumblr. I don't even know.

She basically is like, "Dissidia isn't even canon! There aren't any Cloti moments! Clotis should stop acting like it'll prove their pairing when Clorith is canon! Yet Clorith has EQUAL amounts of proof as Cloti!1111pink111w2wwtf"

I'm sorry but you can't say Clorith is canon one moment, then claim it has the same amount of evidence as Cloti.

4/4/2011 #23 Report

Gaurentee there is at least onepoor soul who thinks it is, or SHIPS it like it is out there. I know plenty of souls who rabidly beleive Narusaku is canon( who can blame them with the Sasuke obsessing going on.), and TREAT it like it is, going so far as to bash people who dont like it, and prefer something else. Character assassination is exactly what I'm talking about in regards to Yaoi/ Yuri. Read below to understand. Friends are said to make the best lovers. I do see its appeal, but I don't ship it myself. Still, it's far from the worse crack couple.I'd take it any day over the likes of Cloud/Yuffie. I mean, just because Cloud is "canonly" straight doesn't mean Clouffie is better or more logical than Clack.

Wait...are you talking about Manta and Faust? Character assasination is character assasination. It isn't lessened if the pairing is boyxgirl. The fact is, a crack pairing is still a crack pairing. Straight or not, ANY couple that goes against the intended pairing deviates from canon, period. Disagreed, it actually is more logical (To me, and thats the whole point here. It's an opinion, which I can't, will not, and will not even attempt to try to and force on anyone else. I will however, try to explain it so you don't feel like I dislike it, and or anyone who likes it.) because this is what I'm trying to get at, Canon Cloud, Given the choice between Yuffie or Zack as a romantic partner, is more likely to choose a women, because he's expressed as being straight. It'd be another story if he'd at one point been hinted to having romantic/sexual feelings for men. But thats another story, and up to interpretation I suppose .

Jiraiya, given the choice between a man, or a Woman, Would choose a woman. It's a part of their characterization/preferences. Jakotsu from Inuyasha, given the choice between a man, or a woman, would choose a guy.

BUT, if you were to write a story, explaining his dislike of women, and then having a girl, help him get through it, and that being the only girl he can stand, and actually has romantic feelings for...I would count that as honestly believable ( I think that would actually be fun to write...) The same things goes for say, Zack and Cloud, Write it in a way that honestly makes ME believe that despite the fact they've been shown to have feelings for women, that I can actually see them having a relationship. This goes for ANY coupling. Yaoi, Yuri, Het, canon, crack, explicit, and even hinted couples, so on and so forth. I WANT TO BELIEVE IT (Whoa...Naruto Dub flashback.), I want it to be LIKABLE, I don't want random bashing, overly out of characterization, and so on and so forth. ( You do see what I'm trying to say now, don't you? If not, I've failed. )

If you want to take two ambiguous characters, who no one really knows what the hecks going on and pair them up, IE: Sephiroth, Itachi, Bankotsu, be my guest. But if your going to take a straight character, and mesh them with another one, it needs to be explained in some way. Same goes for Rufus/Zack/Rude/Reno/Sephiroth/Kain/Whoever/Tifa. It needs to be explained, believable, and in character for me to like it.

To me, as a personal opinion. it's irksome to take a straight character, ESPECIALLY when their known womanizers, Ex: Zack, Jiraiya, it has to do with believability, character preference and the like. Jiraiya is 100 times more likely to hook up with a woman then he is a man due to his preferences. This means, something like Konan/Jiraiya, while unlikely, is more likely then say, Kisame/Jiraiya. (...) Don't you agree? Tifa/Kain? More likely then KainXCecil, or TifaXYuna, if past behavior is judged.

This isn't about like some preference for straight couples or something, it's about the character and who they've been made out to be in canon.

For example. Tifa hating Sephiroth's guts, but in stories jumping into his arms or whatever after somehow coming back from the dead; No. Just no. In another time, another world, another place where the events in Nibelheim didn't take place? Maybe. The same thing goes for Rufus and Tifa, she hates his guts and rightfully so, but if he made a genuine effort, showed he was changing, and placed in a situation where there was no Cloud, and she got to see him suffer for his own actions, then sure, maybe.

My problem with Yaoi/Yuri, is it honestly tends to be poorly written, rabidly worshipped, and filled with immature girls who constantly spasm whenever another character seems even REMOTELY close to one or hell, both the characters in their ship. It's what I've encountered Online, and regretfully in real life.

If you haven't run into, or seen the people I have- Bless you and give me lucky stars.I need them. The only problem I have with yaoi is when people try to pidgeonhole characters into roles like seme and uke

I have met some crazy people in high school. Been subjected to some batshit crazy conversations, theories and things I don't even want to remember. Maybe I'm the biased one now ;D In anycase, In my experience, yea, the majority of people writing the very fics, saying the very things, that have made me the way I am, are in fact immature- that or they can't write. Most of the people doing the Seme/Uke things ARE like 13-18...how do I know? I can read minds.

...No, but really, it's because they don't have the maturity, or RESPECT for actual homosexual couples, to realize they are just like any straight one.

ONE person is not always submissive, ONE person is not always dominant. It changes, it's mixed, so on and so forth.

you know, that sort of stuff isn't limited to Yaoi/Yuri writers either, there are immature, ignorant little punks who write sensitive subject matter like Rape, and have the raped character fall in love with their rapist, and in the end everything like turns to sunshine and rainbows. Thats an INSULT to people who have been violated.

Just like it's an insult to write about abuse, and then act like it never happened.

In all honesty, I think thats what I'm railing against, more so then I am Yaoi noncanon couples versus Hetero ones. It truly comes down to good writing, believability, and plot. Which you have to admit, the majority of them are lacking in those things. That goes for 95% of the stories on this site, whether Yaoi, Het, or whatever. It's just I tend to see an abundance of them in that certain area, because like i said before, the majority of the people who write them, are A, young teens, B. inexperienced writers, C. People who write them because its the "cool" thing to do. ( There are people like this, I knew them in high school. It used to be a HUGE thing to say you were bisexual- even if you weren't. I literally had a guy continuously hound me into saying it in biology class. )

I seriously hopes this takes any "OMG Tsu's like homophobic or something" out of your mind. 'Cause that is really not something I'd like to associate with my name, or have you-or ANYONE thinking about me. I'm not saying TiKa or Clouffie is better than Clack, I'm saying it's more believable- To ME.

This all just a personal opinion=/= TEH TRUTH.

A Clorith complained about Cloti shippers/the pairing on a CLOTI tumblr. I don't even know. She basically is like, "Dissidia isn't even canon! There aren't any Cloti moments! Clotis should stop acting like it'll prove their pairing when Clorith is canon! Yet Clorith has EQUAL amounts of proof as Cloti!1111pink111w2wwtf" I'm sorry but you can't say Clorith is canon one moment, then claim it has the same amount of evidence as Cloti

Lol...They totally trolled you guys. Isn't that sweet? Send them a thank you letter for bumping up the comment counts :D

4/4/2011 . Edited 4/4/2011 #24 Report

RURIAE

This thread at theLifestream.net(Bashing of either Tifa or Aeris.)strikes me as odd. The aka field of the thread-maker says FireMikoKagomechan.

And they're saying they hate bashing of both the girls, butespecially Tifa. But if they are the same(the username would be some coincidence if you ask me)person as was posting here they were bashing Tifa in most of their posts in the "Who deserves Cloud?" topic.

Troll?

4/4/2011 . Edited 4/5/2011 #25 Report